Land Speed Record Attempt

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 10:49:13 +0100, "Brimstone"

Post by Brimstone
A British team is having a go at the land speed record for a steam driven
car.
Apparently the existing record of 127.659 mph was set by an American in
1906.

There's always a world record available if you can think of something
obscure enough.

unknown

2007-06-24 11:44:00 UTC

Post by Brimstone
A British team is having a go at the land speed record for a steam driven
car.
Apparently the existing record of 127.659 mph was set by an American in
1906.
http://www.britishsteamcarappeal.co.uk/
They're looking for sponsorship, a pound (£1) a go.

They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled rocket
is steam powered.

Knight Of The Road

2007-06-24 12:07:22 UTC

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled rocket
is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you follow the
wires back far enough.

I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an onboard
external combustion engine.
--
Regards, Vince.

International Trucking -

Magnificent Millau- a driver's eye view (NEW! 22nd June 2007)

Barcelona Motor Show pull-out (NEW! 23rd June 2007)-
http://tinyurl.com/2pnnu3

Niall Wallace

2007-06-24 15:16:05 UTC

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled rocket
is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you follow the
wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an onboard
external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but the usual
way of turning the energy source into movement is steam actuated pistons.

Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad faster
than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s, 126mph)

Mark Goodge

2007-06-24 15:38:27 UTC

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled rocket
is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you follow the
wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an onboard
external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but the usual
way of turning the energy source into movement is steam actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad faster
than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s, 126mph)

It would be easy to beat Mallard's record if you wanted to. The
difference between that and the Steam LSR is that Mallard was an
ordinary production model designed and built for everyday use, not a
one-off constucted specifically for the purpose of breaking records.

Mark

--
http://www.BritishSurnames.co.uk - What does your surname say about you?
"I let the melody shine, let it cleanse my mind, I feel free now"

m***@hotmail.com

2007-06-25 12:45:08 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled rocket
is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you follow the
wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an onboard
external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but the usual
way of turning the energy source into movement is steam actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad faster
than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s, 126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

MBQ

Brimstone

2007-06-25 12:50:52 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one.

m***@hotmail.com

2007-06-25 12:56:35 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

Oh, the line was certainly cleared for Mallard's run. The record
attempt was officially sanctioned, hence the specific choice of
Mallard for it's free steaming properties and the inclusion of a
dynamometer car in the train.

MBQ

Brimstone

2007-06-25 13:07:53 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide
fuelled rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

It would be easy to beat Mallard's record if you wanted to. The
difference between that and the Steam LSR is that Mallard was an
ordinary production model designed and built for everyday use, not
a one-off constucted specifically for the purpose of breaking
records.

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

Quite true that the line ahead was cleared so that the test train didn't
catch up with the preceeding train, but I was referring to the fact that
Bonneville Salt Lake Flats are not a road over which normal traffic passes
which was the case with the track that Mallard was using.

TripleS

2007-06-25 14:07:45 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

I heard that Mallard's speed record was achieved at the cost of some
mechanical damage, though I never knew what it amounted to. What
happened, did it knock out some coupling rod or connecting rod bearings,
or something like that?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

2007-06-26 20:33:53 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

AIUI Mallard was selected because it was nearly new and not suffering
significant wear related performance.

Martin

2007-06-27 08:36:07 UTC

Post by NM
AIUI Mallard was selected because it was nearly new and not suffering
significant wear related performance.

And double chimney, the streamlining was also internal!

John Wright

2007-06-26 20:44:12 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

The centre big end went - the A4 was a three cylinder machine with
centre derived motion. Part of that derived motion had not been set up
properly. Had it been

a: It might have gone even faster

b: It would not have bust a big end.

--
John Wright

TripleS

2007-06-26 21:39:48 UTC

Post by John Wright

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

The centre big end went - the A4 was a three cylinder machine with
centre derived motion. Part of that derived motion had not been set up
properly. Had it been
a: It might have gone even faster
b: It would not have bust a big end.

Ah, thank you, John. Shame about the damage, but interesting all the same.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Martin

2007-06-27 08:38:09 UTC

The centre big end went - the A4 was a three cylinder machine with centre
derived motion. Part of that derived motion had not been set up properly.
Had it been
a: It might have gone even faster
b: It would not have bust a big end.

If the worst ever happens (losing the record) the NRM once said they would
allow it another go at the speed record as when they made the comment it was
in better condition.

Brimstone

2007-06-26 20:51:19 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

The middle big end ran hot, but it was a known failing on the A4s until they
adopted a modified design in the 1950s. IIRC, the LNER fitted a device into
the bearing so that if it ran hot the driver got a distictive smell in the
cab.

®i©ardo

2007-06-26 20:58:02 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

...and he then changed his trousers.

--
Moving things in still pictures!

TripleS

2007-06-26 21:42:02 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

...modified design in the 1950s? That took a long time to solve then.
The record run was in 1938 wasn't it?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Brimstone

2007-06-26 21:46:45 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

The middle big end ran hot, but it was a known failing on the A4s until
they adopted a modified design in the 1950s. IIRC, the LNER fitted a
device into the bearing so that if it ran hot the driver got a distictive
smell in the cab.

...modified design in the 1950s? That took a long time to solve then.

IIRC, an ex GWR engineer was posted to Doncaster and recommended using the
GW's design. After that no more problems.

Post by TripleS
The record run was in 1938 wasn't it?

Indeed it was.

But don't forget that they were independent companies until 1947 and like
independent companies in any line of business, one doesn't share one's
methods with one's rivals nor does one go asking for their help.

Martin

2007-06-27 08:41:54 UTC

Post by Brimstone
IIRC, an ex GWR engineer was posted to Doncaster and recommended using the
GW's design. After that no more problems.

Of course

Post by Brimstone
But don't forget that they were independent companies until 1947 and like
independent companies in any line of business, one doesn't share one's
methods with one's rivals nor does one go asking for their help.

Mind you the A1s became A3s due to GWR influence

Brimstone

2007-06-27 10:31:31 UTC

Post by Brimstone
IIRC, an ex GWR engineer was posted to Doncaster and recommended
using the GW's design. After that no more problems.

Of course

Post by Brimstone
But don't forget that they were independent companies until 1947
and like independent companies in any line of business, one doesn't
share one's methods with one's rivals nor does one go asking for
their help.

Mind you the A1s became A3s due to GWR influence

Quite, that was following the 1925 Locomotive Exchange.

m***@hotmail.com

2007-06-27 12:56:40 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

The middle big end ran hot, but it was a known failing on the A4s until
they adopted a modified design in the 1950s. IIRC, the LNER fitted a
device into the bearing so that if it ran hot the driver got a distictive
smell in the cab.

...modified design in the 1950s? That took a long time to solve then.

IIRC, an ex GWR engineer was posted to Doncaster and recommended using the
GW's design. After that no more problems.

Post by TripleS
The record run was in 1938 wasn't it?

Indeed it was.
But don't forget that they were independent companies until 1947 and like
independent companies in any line of business, one doesn't share one's
methods with one's rivals nor does one go asking for their help.

But people moved around, hence the GWR influence when Stanier moved to
the LMS.

MBQ

Brimstone

2007-06-27 13:13:07 UTC

On Jun 24, 4:38 pm, Mark Goodge

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide
fuelled rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if
you follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion
by an onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want
but the usual way of turning the energy source into movement
is steam actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and
a tad faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record
(Mallard, 1930s, 126mph)

It would be easy to beat Mallard's record if you wanted to.
The difference between that and the Steam LSR is that Mallard
was an ordinary production model designed and built for
everyday use, not a one-off constucted specifically for the
purpose of breaking records.

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially
prepared or reserved one

I heard that Mallard's speed record was achieved at the cost of
some mechanical damage, though I never knew what it amounted to.
What happened, did it knock out some coupling rod or connecting
rod bearings, or something like that?

The middle big end ran hot, but it was a known failing on the A4s
until they adopted a modified design in the 1950s. IIRC, the LNER
fitted a device into the bearing so that if it ran hot the driver
got a distictive smell in the cab.

...modified design in the 1950s? That took a long time to solve then.

IIRC, an ex GWR engineer was posted to Doncaster and recommended
using the GW's design. After that no more problems.

Post by TripleS
The record run was in 1938 wasn't it?

Indeed it was.
But don't forget that they were independent companies until 1947 and
like independent companies in any line of business, one doesn't
share one's methods with one's rivals nor does one go asking for
their help.

But people moved around, hence the GWR influence when Stanier moved to
the LMS.

Quite true, the same happens now, but that's not the same as one company
sharing info with another.

John Wright

2007-06-27 19:53:45 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

The middle big end ran hot, but it was a known failing on the A4s until
they adopted a modified design in the 1950s. IIRC, the LNER fitted a
device into the bearing so that if it ran hot the driver got a distictive
smell in the cab.

...modified design in the 1950s? That took a long time to solve then.

IIRC, an ex GWR engineer was posted to Doncaster and recommended using the
GW's design. After that no more problems.

Post by TripleS
The record run was in 1938 wasn't it?

Indeed it was.
But don't forget that they were independent companies until 1947 and like
independent companies in any line of business, one doesn't share one's
methods with one's rivals nor does one go asking for their help.

But people moved around, hence the GWR influence when Stanier moved to
the LMS.

Stanier was a Swindon man, trained under Churchward.

--
John Wright

Martin

2007-06-27 08:39:41 UTC

...modified design in the 1950s? That took a long time to solve then. The
record run was in 1938 wasn't it?

Especially when it was precipitated by Mallards record

John Wright

2007-06-27 19:55:49 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

They didn't know what they were doing in a real sense - that was around
the time they constructed the Duke of Gloucester, which was expected to
be as good as the A4s and Stanier pacifics, but it wasn't. It's only
reached its full potential in preservation.

--
John Wright

Brimstone

2007-06-28 07:10:03 UTC

Post by John Wright

On Jun 24, 4:38 pm, Mark Goodge

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide
fuelled rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if
you follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by
an onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want
but the usual way of turning the energy source into movement
is steam actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a
tad faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard,
1930s, 126mph)

It would be easy to beat Mallard's record if you wanted to. The
difference between that and the Steam LSR is that Mallard was an
ordinary production model designed and built for everyday use,
not a one-off constucted specifically for the purpose of
breaking records.

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially
prepared or reserved one

The middle big end ran hot, but it was a known failing on the A4s
until they adopted a modified design in the 1950s. IIRC, the LNER
fitted a device into the bearing so that if it ran hot the driver
got a distictive smell in the cab.

They didn't know what they were doing in a real sense - that was
around the time they constructed the Duke of Gloucester, which was
expected to be as good as the A4s and Stanier pacifics, but it
wasn't. It's only reached its full potential in preservation.

The significant aspect to the DoG was that the construction didn't match the
drawings, there were significant obstructions to the free flow of air and
exhaust as built but not as designed. The loco was rebuilt to design spec
and, as you suggest, is now a good performer.

Clive.

2007-06-29 08:51:43 UTC

Post by John Wright
They didn't know what they were doing in a real sense - that was around
the time they constructed the Duke of Gloucester, which was expected to
be as good as the A4s and Stanier pacifics, but it wasn't. It's only
reached its full potential in preservation.

Was that something as simple as redesigning the brick arch?

--
Clive.

Brimstone

2007-06-29 09:28:13 UTC

Post by Clive.

Post by John Wright
They didn't know what they were doing in a real sense - that was around
the time they constructed the Duke of Gloucester, which was expected to be
as good as the A4s and Stanier pacifics, but it wasn't. It's only reached
its full potential in preservation.

Was that something as simple as redesigning the brick arch?

Not redesigning, but building according to the original spec and included
the ashpan and the chimney petticoat.

PeterG

2007-06-27 21:21:27 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

Don't know about the A4's but the SR Merchant Navy's had a sign in the
cab to the effect if you smell garlic the one of the big ends was
about to go.

PG

Brimstone

2007-06-28 07:10:39 UTC

On Jun 24, 4:38 pm, Mark Goodge

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide
fuelled rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if
you follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by
an onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want
but the usual way of turning the energy source into movement
is steam actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a
tad faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard,
1930s, 126mph)

It would be easy to beat Mallard's record if you wanted to. The
difference between that and the Steam LSR is that Mallard was an
ordinary production model designed and built for everyday use,
not a one-off constucted specifically for the purpose of
breaking records.

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially
prepared or reserved one

The middle big end ran hot, but it was a known failing on the A4s
until they adopted a modified design in the 1950s. IIRC, the LNER
fitted a device into the bearing so that if it ran hot the driver
got a distictive smell in the cab.

Don't know about the A4's but the SR Merchant Navy's had a sign in the
cab to the effect if you smell garlic the one of the big ends was
about to go.

I think the A4s had something similar.

Ian Edwards

2007-06-28 08:18:01 UTC

Post by Brimstone
I think the A4s had something similar.

I wonder if they'll incorporate it into the new Peppercorn A1 being
built at Darlington?

http://www.a1steam.com/design.html

--
Ian Edwards

Brimstone

2007-06-28 08:34:30 UTC

Post by Ian Edwards

Post by Brimstone
I think the A4s had something similar.

I wonder if they'll incorporate it into the new Peppercorn A1 being
built at Darlington?
http://www.a1steam.com/design.html

Or will they do the sensible thing, as Gresley, Thompson et al would have
done, and used a modified big end?

Mark Goodge

2007-06-26 21:11:04 UTC

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:07:45 +0100, TripleS put finger to keyboard and

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Oh, the line was certainly cleared for Mallard's run. The record
attempt was officially sanctioned, hence the specific choice of
Mallard for it's free steaming properties and the inclusion of a
dynamometer car in the train.

It was an overheated inside big end bearing, according to Wikipedia.
No, I don't know what that is either, but apparently it wasn't a
catastrophic failure - it just needed a return to the workshop for
repairs.

Mark

--
Blog: http://Mark.Goodge.co.uk Photos: http://www.goodge.co.uk
"Everybody's changing and I don't feel the same"

Brimstone

2007-06-26 21:16:52 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:07:45 +0100, TripleS put finger to keyboard and

"Big end" and "little end" refer to the connecting rod, exactly the same as
those in a car engine, except that those on a steam loco are a tad bigger.
The little end is attached to the piston rod and the big end is on a bearing
on the axle or the wheel.

TripleS

2007-06-27 05:58:08 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:07:45 +0100, TripleS put finger to keyboard and

...or a crankshaft type of thing of course. Fixing the big end to a
normal axle would leave the thing with zero stroke - which wouldn't
achieve much. ;-)

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Brimstone

2007-06-27 07:33:50 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:07:45 +0100, TripleS put finger to keyboard

I heard that Mallard's speed record was achieved at the cost of
some mechanical damage, though I never knew what it amounted to. What
happened, did it knock out some coupling rod or connecting
rod bearings, or something like that?

"Big end" and "little end" refer to the connecting rod, exactly the
same as those in a car engine, except that those on a steam loco are
a tad bigger. The little end is attached to the piston rod and the
big end is on a bearing on the axle or the wheel.

...or a crankshaft type of thing of course. Fixing the big end to a
normal axle would leave the thing with zero stroke - which wouldn't
achieve much. ;-)

On a steam loco the crank is the axle. :-)

TripleS

2007-06-27 11:56:43 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:07:45 +0100, TripleS put finger to keyboard

I heard that Mallard's speed record was achieved at the cost of
some mechanical damage, though I never knew what it amounted to. What
happened, did it knock out some coupling rod or connecting
rod bearings, or something like that?

"Big end" and "little end" refer to the connecting rod, exactly the
same as those in a car engine, except that those on a steam loco are
a tad bigger. The little end is attached to the piston rod and the
big end is on a bearing on the axle or the wheel.

...or a crankshaft type of thing of course. Fixing the big end to a
normal axle would leave the thing with zero stroke - which wouldn't
achieve much. ;-)

On a steam loco the crank is the axle. :-)

Yes I know, but it can't be a normal axle. It serves the purpose of an
axle but it is actually a crankshaft as well.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Martin

2007-06-27 08:41:11 UTC

Post by TripleS
I heard that Mallard's speed record was achieved at the cost of some
mechanical damage, though I never knew what it amounted to. What
happened, did it knock out some coupling rod or connecting rod bearings,
or something like that?

It ran the centre big end - the design flaw was eventually fixed due to
this - marginal
lubrication, it is the only example of speed related bearing damage I know
of, in BR times the A4s regularly went over 100 and none of the others ever
had this - including SNG doing 113

Martin

2007-06-27 08:48:53 UTC

More to the point is the following.

The best performances I know of speed related are not that high - only going
to 90mph, but it is what did it - 9F heavy freight locos, a few of them on
passenger duty have done 90 easily but at the cost of piston ring wear, the
speed of the components (piston speed, driving wheel RPM) were similar to
that of an A4 doing around 125.

However none failed doing this and is was acheived on both the Western
region out of Paddington and on the ECML following a loco shortage (a
performance logger thought it was a Britannia).

PeterG

2007-06-27 21:26:37 UTC

More to the point is the following.
The best performances I know of speed related are not that high - only going
to 90mph, but it is what did it - 9F heavy freight locos, a few of them on
passenger duty have done 90 easily but at the cost of piston ring wear, the
speed of the components (piston speed, driving wheel RPM) were similar to
that of an A4 doing around 125.
However none failed doing this and is was acheived on both the Western
region out of Paddington and on the ECML following a loco shortage (a
performance logger thought it was a Britannia).

IIRC orders were sent out to restrict the 9F's speed as those in
charge had a vision of a connecting rod coming off at the speed thats
their small wheels were revolving.

PG

Martin

2007-06-28 08:23:27 UTC

Post by PeterG
IIRC orders were sent out to restrict the 9F's speed as those in
charge had a vision of a connecting rod coming off at the speed thats
their small wheels were revolving.

What I read was piston ring wear - I'll have to check my books

Jeff York

2007-06-27 14:09:02 UTC

I think that it broke a crankshaft - had to be towed back IIRC...

On the related point of the "steam car" world speed record, IIRC it
was set by a modified Stanley Steamer and was the last time that the
absolute world speed record was held by a land vehicle.

TripleS

2007-06-27 16:13:53 UTC

Post by Jeff York

I think that it broke a crankshaft - had to be towed back IIRC...

Now that sounds nasty with such heavy bits and pieces flying around, but
it doesn't tally with what we've heard from others about a bearing
failure or an overheated bearing.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

John Wright

2007-06-26 20:40:28 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:16:05 +0100, Niall Wallace put finger to

Post by unknown
They're going the wrong way about it. A hydrogen peroxide fuelled
rocket is steam powered.

Yes, but this is pedantic. A French TGV is steam powered if you
follow the wires back far enough.
I think it's a given that the attempt refers to propulsion by an
onboard external combustion engine.

You can power an external combustion engine any way you want but
the usual way of turning the energy source into movement is steam
actuated pistons.
Interesting that the Steam LSR was set much much earlier and a tad
faster than the Steam Locomotive speed record (Mallard, 1930s,
126mph)

That, and the small matter of the 240 tons of train ;-)

As well as travelling over a normal road, not a specially prepared or
reserved one

In addition, in the words of the NRM, Mallard was just new enough to be
run in but not old enough to be worn out! It was also one of the few
A4's with a Kylchap exhaust - this would improve the efficiency more
than somewhat.

The Chap in Kylchap was Andre Chapelon. One of his finest efforts (the
242 A1) got the overall efficiency over 12% - staggering for a steam
engine.

--
John Wright

Martin

2007-06-27 08:43:46 UTC

The Chap in Kylchap was Andre Chapelon. One of his finest efforts (the 242
A1) got the overall efficiency over 12% - staggering for a steam engine.

One of the greats of steam loco development - along with Churchward

John Wright

2007-06-27 19:58:39 UTC

The Chap in Kylchap was Andre Chapelon. One of his finest efforts (the 242
A1) got the overall efficiency over 12% - staggering for a steam engine.

One of the greats of steam loco development - along with Churchward

Absolutely. Its a pity the SNCF didn't back Chapelon's ideas, they were
too intent on electrification.

--
John Wright

Martin

2007-06-28 08:25:03 UTC

Post by John Wright
Absolutely. Its a pity the SNCF didn't back Chapelon's ideas, they were
too intent on electrification

Electrification was more sensible than Dieselisation - that said some of my
favourite locos are Diesel

John Wright

2007-06-29 22:36:54 UTC

Post by John Wright
Absolutely. Its a pity the SNCF didn't back Chapelon's ideas, they were
too intent on electrification

Electrification was more sensible than Dieselisation - that said some of my
favourite locos are Diesel

It is/was. Perhaps more so then than now - it has been said that the
latest Cummins engines have lower overall emissions than an electric
train of similar power - this is one reason electrification has stalled
in recent years in the UK.

You don't really want diesels that smoke a lot like some people do!

--
John Wright

Martin

2007-07-02 10:21:35 UTC

Post by John Wright
It is/was. Perhaps more so then than now - it has been said that the
latest Cummins engines have lower overall emissions than an electric train
of similar power - this is one reason electrification has stalled in
recent years in the UK.
You don't really want diesels that smoke a lot like some people do!

The Mirlees in the 60 is very efficient.

Deltic smoke looks good though!!!!

2007-07-02 12:36:19 UTC

The Mirlees in the 60 is very efficient.
Deltic smoke looks good though!!!!

That takes me back, Ton class minesweepers.

Martin

2007-07-02 15:29:54 UTC

Post by NM

Post by Martin
Deltic smoke looks good though!!!!

That takes me back, Ton class minesweepers.

I'm thinking of a pair of D18-25s in a railway loco.

John Wright

2007-07-11 20:54:15 UTC

The Mirlees in the 60 is very efficient.
Deltic smoke looks good though!!!!

Deltic sound was/is even better. Who needs smoke if you can hear one.

--
John Wright

Ian

2007-06-27 09:01:35 UTC

Post by Mark Goodge
It would be easy to beat Mallard's record if you wanted to. The
difference between that and the Steam LSR is that Mallard was an
ordinary production model designed and built for everyday use, not a
one-off constucted specifically for the purpose of breaking records.

Though we should remember that Mallard was seriously damaged in the
attempt and that as records go it was petty dodgy - one way only, and
downhill.

Ian

Brimstone

2007-06-27 10:29:18 UTC

Post by Ian

Though we should remember that Mallard was seriously damaged in the
attempt

Nothing that didn't happen to other members of the class in normal everyday
service on occasions. As I've said elsewhere, it was a known problem and
measuers were installed to minimise damage.

Post by Ian
and that as records go it was petty dodgy - one way only, and
downhill.

That's because it wasn't *officially* a speed record attempt. The train was
ostensibly carrying out braking tests.

TripleS

2007-06-27 11:59:44 UTC

Post by Ian

Though we should remember that Mallard was seriously damaged in the
attempt

Nothing that didn't happen to other members of the class in normal everyday
service on occasions. As I've said elsewhere, it was a known problem and
measuers were installed to minimise damage.

Post by Ian
and that as records go it was petty dodgy - one way only, and
downhill.

That's because it wasn't *officially* a speed record attempt. The train was
ostensibly carrying out braking tests.

Was that with or without ABS?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Brimstone

2007-06-27 12:13:27 UTC

Post by Ian

Post by Mark Goodge
It would be easy to beat Mallard's record if you wanted to. The
difference between that and the Steam LSR is that Mallard was an
ordinary production model designed and built for everyday use, not
a one-off constucted specifically for the purpose of breaking
records.

Though we should remember that Mallard was seriously damaged in the
attempt

Nothing that didn't happen to other members of the class in normal
everyday service on occasions. As I've said elsewhere, it was a
known problem and measuers were installed to minimise damage.

Post by Ian
and that as records go it was petty dodgy - one way only, and
downhill.

That's because it wasn't *officially* a speed record attempt. The
train was ostensibly carrying out braking tests.

Was that with or without ABS?

LOL

Dave Plowman (News)

2007-06-24 12:12:12 UTC